That is the question put by The Independent, reflecting on the possible outcome of the Irish referendum, now less than a week away. Certainly, if the latest poll is to be believed, the Irish are about to become yes-men. According to a Red C/Sunday Business Post poll, 55 percent of voters back the <s>constitutional</s> Lisbon treaty, compared with 27 percent against, and 18 percent undecided.

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"To ensure a "yes" vote, all the normal rules governing balanced media coverage were suspended. The European Commission has poured €1.5 million into an unprecedented advertising blitz. EU commissioners, led by President Jose-Manuel Barroso, MEPs and officials have been flooding in to promote the cause. However, when one or two British outsiders – including Nigel Farage, leader of a group in the European Parliament, and Lorraine Mullally, director of the think-tank Open Europe, and of good Irish stock – came over to campaign for a "No" vote, their "foreign intervention" was greeted by orchestrated howls of abuse."

There is no law, no right and wrong, only demonstration of Wille Zu Macht. Long live Fuhrerprinzip, Heil Hitler.

This is the latest from Hague (Interview with Benedict Brogan - I think of the DT?)

"Take the European ruling that employers could have to compensate workers for sick time on holidays: "It might be a good idea or a bad idea but it should be decided here in Britain. That is the sort of freedom that we need to have back for the future."
As Tory leader, Mr Hague championed resistance to further European integration and the single currency. Have his views evolved since then? Some whisper that in private he is far more hardline, an "outer" who would happily see the UK withdraw from the EU.
"No, that's not the case, no, no, no, no, no. I'm a very straightforward person. I believe it is in our national interest to be in the EU but it's not in our national interest to lose ever more of our democratic rights to run our own affairs to the EU. And there's no contradiction between those things. In 1999 my slogan was 'In Europe not run by Europe' and that, in six words, is what I really do believe in."

Its a case of read my lips (five 'No's above) and read my real policy re the EU - the old mantra, incredibly after 37 years of EU rule, he still believes his own propaganda "In Europe, not run by Europe".
This man isn't silly or more naive than the rest of the shyster politicians - quite the reverse. So this represents presumably, the latest Conservative "position". If your head nods up and down automata like, and repeats "In Europe....not run by" BEFORE Lisbon, there seems to be nothing to stop it still nodding stupidly ad nauseam for years AFTER Lisbon.

I don’t know if I’m playing eternal optimist but I simply can’t accept the result of the last two polls. It’s not what I’m hearing on the ground. It will be very tight. They’ve pulled every trick in the book to bag this one as pointed out but I still think a NO is possible.

I do so hope you are right. The poll itself could be black propaganda, skewed so as to make the wish come true. These people will stop at nothing.

IrishMan - i don't know where 'on the ground' you're hearing it all but i actually haven't heard a single 'No' vote/voice amongst workers in the business sector. Yes, I admit that's a limited view but, in reality, people here are so worried about the economy, and the state of 'hanging desperation' in the air, along with the 'Yes, we must be in Europe to save the economy' message, has made the message seep in.

This economic fear tactic is what is being used here and will be used in the UK next year if 'The Boy David' gets anywhere near a referendum (watch for a big slide in the UK economy next year !.....not a difficult prediction given the world economy, i hear you say, but there could be such a single/sole devaluation that the only way out will be to be resuced by the EU ??).

So subjugation - previously to the Crown and, more than likely now, to the EU - is, as before, a frightening re-cycle of action for the Irish. I hope i'm wrong and what you are hearing is concrete enough to come through in the end.

However, whatever the outcome - after the Irish, UK, German and Czech decisions - this is a continuous fight against the Platonic Socialist thought of governance and, as i've mentioned before, this process has taken millenia....even longer, in timelines, than that detailed by Dr North and Mr Booker.
Unfortunately, we are in a WAR that far outweighs the usual power, greed, control game....this is indeed SPIRITUAL !!!

The ironic part of the 'we must be in Europe to save the economy' rubbish is that people are starting to think that the EU can't do a worse job that the idiots in charge in the republic. However it's all the 'main' parties that are supporting this message....check the voting posters....thus, in fact, the main parties saving their own arses !!!
You couldn't make this up.....well, yes you could, you just have to have that parasitic tendency about you - entice the host (by imitating benevolency) and then destroy it.

So do I. A second no on Ireland would be fantastic.



Has happened before. Ten to twelve days before the Euro-referendum in Sweden all the polls started to show a shrinking difference between the yes and no. The yes side was catching up quickly. However, a week later the polls had again stabilized at the final result - an average of 13% advantage for the NO. When analyzing the figures after the event one thing that was interesting to note was that the polling had been carried out over widely different periods. If instead of adding together polls published on the same day, one averaged polls carried out over the same period there was no "bounce" for the "yes" at all. Also, in almost all the polls there raw data was corrected with a 1 - 2 percentage units addition in favour of the yes. However, in early September suddenly one of the largest polling firms "corrected" their results with 6%-units to the yes side, without any explanation.

Given that the polling frequency was so high the firms had plenty of time to correct their results in the last or penultimate poll before the voting day. That was also what happened. However, had they known about the murder of our FM beforehand they could have kept up the charade. As it now was almost all figures pointed towards a further swing to the "no",the day before Ms Lindh was stabbed tp death.

It is truly a sad state that the UK has come to, that its future is to be decided by Ireland. If we believe that we don't want any truck with the EU, then let us make it clear in our national elections by voting for UKIP. If on the other hand, we want to give the entire political and media class a bloody nose, then we should vote for the BNP, regardless of what we think of the BNP. The purpose is to show the political class, that we the public, are the masters, and we can elect who we like, whether BNP or aliens from Mars.

Do you people not realise that it does not matter if they vote 'no' or 'yes'? If they vote no the content of the treaty will just be implemented anyway piece by piece in silence, we will sign up to it all, in silence. That is how the EU has worked for the past 40 years. We voted for an economic community and suddenly we have a whole new government - on the bloomin continent!

The EU does not care what the people think, when will you learn?

Mostly canvassing in Dublin North Central. I’ve done working class areas and middle class areas. Middle class areas have a fairly high percentage of Yes voters but nothing earth shattering. The real joy is to be had in the working class areas where you would find it difficult to find a single Yes. I’ve contacts canvassing right across the country and they tell me it’s just as difficult to find a Yes voter anywhere.

They exist (probably only coming out at night to feed) but it’s difficult to find them. You can also get anecdotal evidence on "tales from the canvass" HERE

I’m thinking the same thing Richard - i.e., polls are purposefully skewed etc. Both those polls come from Europhile papers.

Where are the people you talk to predominately from s mac? Are they south Dubliners? I’m not being flippant but it’s very easy to live in a bubble on issues like this. The real people of this country will decide this.

Yes, i work on the South-side (during the week).
However a fair %'age of a lot of workers are North-siders, but not city centre Northsiders. Their thoughts are obviously impressed by the corporate culture.

And yes, 13th Spitfire, we do know about the continual tide of the EU 'project' - this being very obvious (in recent times, at the very least) in RoI from their referendums.