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 Post subject: The Lazarus project
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 12:19 am 
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"I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die". Well, the defence ministers of the seven countries mad enough to want to buy the thing certainly believe in it. Way beyond the fourth day, the Airbus A-400M has risen from the dead, and is on its way to becoming a real aeroplane. Certainly, we're getting to the point where we wish the damn thing would fly, as we're getting sick of endlessly posting computer graphics to illustrate posts on it. The one above is the real thing, though – firmly earthbound.

View full article here

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 Post subject: Re: The Lazarus project
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 3:30 am 

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When are EADS going to have to admit just how broke they are? Airbus 'competes' in a recession hit dollar based industry with euro overheads. A few years ago it pointed out that Airbus lose money when the dollar falls against the euro, it has now been a few years since the dollar was high enough.
Airbus seems to be this curious European edifice a State supported company that is beyond commercial logic or accounting.

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 Post subject: Re: The Lazarus project
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 11:27 am 

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In December the result will be: Yes we'll have it but not as many. The price has gone up. Delivery will be even later. The aeroplane will not meet the specifications. In the meantime there will be more people in the Hercules queue before we bother to join it.

What we could do now is this: Commit to a proportion of the order and spend some of the remaining budget on getting more Hercules and C-17. If A400M turns out to be crap for our needs sell them on. If A400M turns out to be great then buy more. The Hercules fleet especially could surely do with a shot in the arm from extra and newer airframes. Replace the oldest ones ASAP. They could be donated to the Afghan Government.

I really don't understand the way this programme has progressed. Build a small scale prototype with 2 off the shelf engines. Build a full size prototype with 4 off the shelf engines. Could have been done years ago. Might even have found a market for the little one and could have a staged introduction of the full sized one - first model with off the shelf engines, later upgraded to the full power ones. Not ideal but we could have airframes in the air sooner, even if they were down on power and range. Something, anything real, flying around and trying to eek out a few more orders. Are procurement people too easily swayed by brochures, video graphics and jollies around the world? They're being sold a dream when they should be buying an aeroplane.


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 Post subject: Re: The Lazarus project
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 11:29 am 

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Exclusive video of the A400M's first flight...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGgs3bJMCxk&feature=related


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 Post subject: The Lazarus project
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 12:11 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 11:32 am
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Great video, davehannah! Now there's quite a shortage of UAVs in Helmand currently. Could this variant of the A400M be the solution?

Watchet


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 Post subject: Re: The Lazarus project
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 2:10 pm 
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I really do not understand ANY of this.
What is more, I have the feeling that no-one is even supposed to understand.
We need large heavy-lifters.
We are clearly incapable of producing one ourselves...and are not even sure it would get off the ground if we did.
Proven heavy-lifters are, and have been, available for years.
Antonov, inter alia, have been producing these machines, successfully, since whenever.
Antonovs are made in The Ukraine, a relatively poor but 'friendly' country which would certainly welcome the business from a profligate EU with a bottomless (taxpayers) pocket.
The money spent on the A400, to date, is probably many times greater than the cost of buying up 'Antonov Ukraine Pty' lock stock & barrel.

I have no doubt that my rant will meet with 'all the usual reasons' not to do anything except plough our own useless furrow but, the bottom line is that what we need is already available.


Wiki: "The world's largest aircraft, the Airbuus A380, can carry up to
525 passengers in a stantard 3-class configuration!The A380 has a
wingspan of 79.8 metres
An Even BIGGER aircraft
The biggest aircraft ever made was the Russian Antonov 225 Mriya Cossack. It is larger in every way, and more powerfull than the american C5 Galaxy, which would otherwise claim the title of worlds biggest aircraft.
It was originally built to carry the soviet space shuttle and is now owned and operated by Antonov Airlines in the Ukraine.
Its maximum payload is a whopping 650 tons (thats roughly equivalent to 6,500 average-weight people, standing room only!). It is 92Metres long, has a wingspan of 96.6Metres and carries no less than 6 massive turbofan engines.
It stands 7 stories tall and its range is an impressive 8,000 miles. It is also capable of re-fuelling in mid-air thanks to a retro-fit.
If you could somehow move them, you could fit 8 average-sized family houses inside its cargo bay!
The Airbus A380 can still claim a title... that of worlds largest commercial passenger aircraft, but it is nevertheless only a toy in comparison with the Cossack!"

Yes but,............................................Duh PDT_Armataz_01_35

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 Post subject: Re: The Lazarus project
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 2:47 pm 
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And, of course, Antonov heavy lift is used extensively to support forces in Iraq and Afghnaistan.

You've slightly over-egged the 225, by the way ... 250 tons, not 650 ... impressive enough even with that!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonov_An-225

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 Post subject: Re: The Lazarus project
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 4:29 pm 
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Richard writes:
Quote:
You've slightly over-egged the 225, by the way .

Not my egg PDT_Armataz_01_23
Okay, i know we hire these damned things...but why in the hell aren't we having them made for us for god's sake instead of pissing away all our money against the EADS wall.

In the real world, where i just happen to live, I can buy an expensive Italian /German espresso machine with all the conceivable bells & whistles...including a querulous letter from my bank manager...for a mere small fortune.
My excellent, now two years old, 'Made in China' (so bloody what if my mates can't produce it) machine cost me €40,- and produces as good a cup as Signor de Longhi.

Small wonder that Joe Public has no idea which planet he's living on.
I give up...I really do.

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 Post subject: Re: The Lazarus project
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 4:41 pm 
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The answer is simple ... this is not a military project, it is political. It is a status symbol for "Greater Europe" ... the Yanks have one so the Europeans must have one. It is an affront to the "national" pride of the Europeans that they have to buy military lift from the Americans or the Russians. Their own estimation of their own worth demands that they should have a European machines.

Never mind that we have a 10 percent workshare in the C-130J and will make more money and sustain more employment out of that machine than ever we will the A-400M ... it is not European.

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 Post subject: Re: The Lazarus project
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 5:05 pm 
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Quote:
The answer is simple ... this is not a military project, it is political. It is a status symbol for "Greater Europe....usw"


A point not lost on me would you believe...however, it is one to which Mr. T. Atkins (presently abroad in danger of losing his life) & his miserable parents are not privy.

How to get to them? (rhetorical)
Their only medium is MSM.
How does one get the MSM to get to them?........Aha!
Where there is no honesty there is no reliability.
Aha!
Fazit:
The EADS wall will eventually crumble from a surfeit of Uric Acid.

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 Post subject: Re: The Lazarus project
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 5:23 pm 

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What about a EURef campaign to ditch the A400M for British jobs in the C130J? See if the redoubtable Winterton would be prepared to start highlighting embarrassing figures?

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 Post subject: Re: The Lazarus project
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 6:46 pm 
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A tad OT, forgive me.
I am full of admiration for the redoubtable Ms. Winterton.
Our form of governance allows us really only one forum for debate.
We, the sheeple, elect our chosen reps. to participate in this forum.
They address each other as 'Honourable Members'...and that is the first avoidance of the truth from which all else should follow, as recent events have shown....an honourable MP is almost an oxymoron...with emphasis on the moron.
The time has surely come for those few who still have honour to create a FURORE in the House...the hell with Whips & toeing the party line.
There is no shortage of subjects...and the A400M is as good a place as any to start.
Another, and better first choice, might be: WTF are we doing in Afghanistan in the first place...and WhyTF, if forced, we sent in a Military without the slightest semblance of the correct kit.
But let's stick with the A400M...really! You couldn't ask for a better ongoing disaster.

On the brighter PDT_Armataz_01_23 side, the Wehrmacht...sorry, Bundeswehr...hat endlich die Nase voll und...tired of taking casualties, has gone on the offensive which is far more satisfyingly fun. (their fathers were not exactly pussycats)

But...A400M...It's wake-up time!....................Duh!

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 Post subject: Re: The Lazarus project
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 6:57 pm 
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The problem is, as with so many things, the Tory Party is compromised. It was Major's government that joined the Future Large Aircarft (project), even with the experience of the Eurofighter (following on from many others) which gave adequate testimony to the fact that these European co-operative projects do not work. Thus you will not get any opposition from the Tories and, without a political edge, there will be no controversy and thus no media coverage.

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 Post subject: Re: The Lazarus project
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 7:45 pm 
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Richard, I hope you've got a better line of chat for Jackson on the 29th!

Our inadequately kitted troops show courage every time they step into a vehicle.
Our very adequately kitted MPs have only to step into the House, poor dears, without even the guts to speak out for those of their constituents who are under fire.
A curse on all their Houses....'plague', I now remember, is correct...so...both.
Has nobody even the guts to stand up & say that Major was wrong...in this and so many things.

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 Post subject: Re: The Lazarus project
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 8:14 pm 
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permanentexpat wrote:
Richard, I hope you've got a better line of chat for Jackson on the 29th!

Our inadequately kitted troops show courage every time they step into a vehicle.
Our very adequately kitted MPs have only to step into the House, poor dears, without even the guts to speak out for those of their constituents who are under fire.
A curse on all their Houses.
Has nobody even the guts to stand up & say that Major was wrong...in this and so many things.


The sad reality ... with a Westminster-centric media, the issue does not exist until there is a Punch 'n' Judy bust up between Dave and Gordon. Ann Winterton did raise the issue in the House - her own side shuffled uneasily and looked at her as if she had just said something unmentionable in church. And, of course, there was no follow-up from the front benches, and nor will there be. As it stands, therefore, there looks progressively to be an increasing shortage of strategic and tactical airlift, culminating in a serious crisis in 2012 when the Hercules C1/C3 fleet has to be grounded.

The capacity gap will in part be filled by the A330s coming on-stream, and perhaps leased aircraft, but with 180 (nominal) A-400Ms not coming on-stream, global airlift capacity is going to be very short and everybody is going to be chasing after the few airframes that are spare. We can buy time with a very expensive life extension programme for the current Hercules fleet, except that that takes them out of service anyway, still leaving us short of capacity.

If the tempo of operations in Afghanistan is maintained, the Tories are likely to be confronting a near-insoluble problem, and are going to be asked some very sharp questions as to why they did not take a hand sooner. If Labour stitch us up with an A-400M contract without the Tories protesting, they are left without a leg to stand on. Yet still they are silent. This, therefore, is another area where the Tories continue to amaze.

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