Change font size
It is currently Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:27 pm


Post a new topicPost a reply Page 1 of 1   [ 15 posts ]
Author Message
 Post subject: A dangerous self-indulgence?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:07 am 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:11 am
Posts: 24869
Location: Bradford
Twice we've called "time" on this current controversy over equipment for our troops in Afghanistan, yet it continues almost unabated. It was with more than some interest, therefore, that we watched author and analyst Michael Griffin on BBC News 24 yesterday, expressing similar puzzlement over the intensity of the "debate".

View full article here

_________________
We are a satellite state of the Greater European Empire, ruled by a supreme government in Brussels. We owe this government neither loyalty nor obedience. It is not our government. It is theirs. It is our enemy.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: A dangerous self-indulgence?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:18 am 
Yes there might be some Aston Villa fans reading this. Though what is wrong with pulling out I do not know. Do we really spend tens of thousands rearing,educating and nurturing our young people,simply to get them killed by some backward tribesmen? The equation doesn't add up.


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: A dangerous self-indulgence?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:02 am 
It's a sorrowing experience to witness the witless cameroons fight the guiless gordonians in a never-ending circle of unimportance.

Why doesn't the "Sensible PArty" attack the plain stupid "global warming" policies of the enemy?

It's a pretty straight forward political play; and one which will have majority support from the electorate.


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: A dangerous self-indulgence?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:40 am 
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 2:30 am
Posts: 3172
Location: portugal/germany
Quote:
But the military, the politicians and the media – and indeed this blog – need to think very hard about the message they are sending, and to whom.

Indeed...many of the 'whom' live just around the corner, listen to Aunty, trawl the blogosphere, have expensive ISP contracts & aren't over-worried about large cellphone bills.
Quote:
Yes there might be some Aston Villa fans reading this. Though what is wrong with pulling out I do not know. Do we really spend tens of thousands rearing,educating and nurturing our young people,simply to get them killed by some backward tribesmen? The equation doesn't add up.

Not quite sure about the 'educating' bit but I have no quarrel with the sentiment...not forgetting that we have a glorious Imperial history (wassat?) of being killed by backward tribesmen...our learning curve is horizontal.

_________________
Know thine enemy..........The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'
Ronald Reagan.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: A dangerous self-indulgence?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 11:03 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 11:32 am
Posts: 824
Location: Tasmania
Quote:
there is no shortage of helicopters in theatre to support current operations. The prime minister is right on this.


Now that the US cavalry has at last arrived in Helmand, there probably are now enough choppers available. But there were not until very recently while Britain was fully in charge. And that's where the disgrace is. If we were part if a bigger group but few in numbers ourselves then we could quite reasonably look to others to provide the majority of the kit. But if we are the majority & take charge (as we are & have in Helmand), then we are the ones who should be doing it properly - as well in fact as anyone, Briton or non-Briton, can do it.

Previously there may have been enough Chinooks (just), backed by a rather meagre supply of Apaches & a few rather make-shift Sea Kings. The original Lynxes, filling up the light helicopter category, were far too few to do all the liaison work (for both our senior staff & friendly local Afghan leadership who we naturally don't want killed on the ground when they need to move around for war-planning & administrative meetings etc), our own small section troop movements & their re-supply tasks, ground vehicle & convoy escort, & medevac etc etc. There were too few even if the aircraft had worked in Afghanistan's "hot-&-high" environment. There were effectively none available during the day as the Lynxes could only work in Afghanistan at night. Let's hope the 22 (plus another 15 odd I think it is) Lynxes which are being re-worked now to enable them to manage Afghanistan properly will be at last be able to do so, & that a reasonable number of them will then be sent to operate there. But if they can't do what's required of them, then we need to buy or lease some Hueys or Blackhawks to do this work. Urgently!

Whatever the PM may say, it's a very poor situation that the 8 re-engineered Chinooks & 6 ex-Danish Merlins should be taking so long to be ready for Afghanistan. That is reason enough for other aircraft, eg the 20 MVTs & the 12 ex-UAE Pumas, to have been acquired or leased to fill helicopter numbers gaps in Afghanistan until these 14 Chinooks & Merlins (or other similar types of choppers) were at last ready.

It seems that "the enemy" (which may not only be the Taliban) did not want us to make up our deficient helicopter numbers, & left our inadequate numbers of aircraft unchallenged until increased numbers at last became a likelihood. Then suddenly we have these 5 recent low-flying accidents: a Canadian Griffon, a Ukrainian-crewed civilian chopper, a US Strike Eagle, & another civilian helicopter & a UK Tornado on successive days at Kandahar! Either a new non-shoot type weapon has reached the Taliban (unlikely, unless the Pakistan SIS has supplied them, but why hasn't it been used by the Taliban in western Pakistan then?). Or is it in the hands of allies of the West's old enemy, paying us back for Georgia! Chechens (from the Pro-Russian governing group) maybe - mascarading perhaps as Taliban?

Watchet


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A dangerous self-indulgence?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 11:24 am 
This storm over the shortage of helicopters is basically an artificial one. As Dr North points out, there are more then enough helicopters for the job. His analysis on equipment though, is far too technical for journalists.

What is at the back of this storm is the concern what our main objectives are, and how they are to be met. These are not clear at all. Let us suppose that there was a clear and worthwhile objective, and it could be met with the application of sufficient force. Then ordinary people, and the MSM would not be so concerned about the mounting casualties-ordinary people have enough commonsense to know that wars lead to casualties. Absent the first though, then each casualty becomes an excuse to berate the government, using any excuse to hand. Helicopters in this case. Helicopters, personnel carriers etc., are the symtoms of the basic unease of our mission in that benighted country.

Incidentally, helicopters are not some magic device that will significantly reduce casualties. In ferrying soldiers to hot spots in mountanous regions, they are very vulnerable. It requires just one Taleban with a Stinger or RPG, crouching behind a rock, to wreck the helicopter and inflict a large number of casualties, unlike the one or two at the moment in a personnel carrier.


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: A dangerous self-indulgence?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:04 pm 

Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:59 pm
Posts: 1862
Is there a place in this war for paratroops dropping from aeroplanes (or helicopters)?


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: A dangerous self-indulgence?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:38 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2007 6:21 pm
Posts: 261
Location: EU Airstrip One
Couldn't resist
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A dangerous self-indulgence?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:59 pm 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:11 am
Posts: 24869
Location: Bradford
gregb wrote:
Couldn't resist
Image


Love it! Have you got that full size, and I'll post it on the blog.

_________________
We are a satellite state of the Greater European Empire, ruled by a supreme government in Brussels. We owe this government neither loyalty nor obedience. It is not our government. It is theirs. It is our enemy.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: A dangerous self-indulgence?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:43 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2007 6:21 pm
Posts: 261
Location: EU Airstrip One
I took it off your post, so that is full size - sorry, unless you want to send me the original.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A dangerous self-indulgence?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 4:02 pm 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:11 am
Posts: 24869
Location: Bradford
Nah! Tried it ... it has shrunked.

_________________
We are a satellite state of the Greater European Empire, ruled by a supreme government in Brussels. We owe this government neither loyalty nor obedience. It is not our government. It is theirs. It is our enemy.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: A dangerous self-indulgence?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 6:18 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 1:09 pm
Posts: 1112
Location: Bristol
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A dangerous self-indulgence?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:17 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2007 6:21 pm
Posts: 261
Location: EU Airstrip One
Image

It's a bit bigger, uncropped - best I can do.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A dangerous self-indulgence?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:28 pm 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:11 am
Posts: 24869
Location: Bradford
Straight up!

_________________
We are a satellite state of the Greater European Empire, ruled by a supreme government in Brussels. We owe this government neither loyalty nor obedience. It is not our government. It is theirs. It is our enemy.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: A dangerous self-indulgence?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:52 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 1:09 pm
Posts: 1112
Location: Bristol
Pre migration...

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post a new topicPost a reply Page 1 of 1   [ 15 posts ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
cron


Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
610nm Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net