Col Thorneloe threads

[RAENORTH]

They should not have died

I am sorry if it offends – and it certainly does upset some of the military types, and the "consultants" and designers responsible for the Viking and the decision to deploy it to Afghanistan – but, on the basis of all the evidence we have, Booker and I both have come to the conclusion that Lieutenant-Colonel Rupert Thorneloe and Trooper Joshua Hammond should not have died.

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With friends like this ...

Having egregiously failed in its role of questioning the MoD's often lacklustre choices of vehicles, The Guardian, via Richard Norton-Taylor and Mark Tranc, now rush to give house-room to defenders of the Viking. Thus we see the headline "Former officers defend vehicles as Afghanistan bomb deaths investigated," with the strap line: "Use of Vikings questioned after British commander and soldier are killed, but analysts say size of Taliban bombs surprises military."

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Time to get this sorted

With the recent deaths of Lt-Col Thorneloe and Trp Joshua Hammond, the number of service personnel killed in Afghanistan by mine strikes and IEDs while riding in poorly protected vehicles rises to 49 by our estimate. With 140 KIA, that amounts to 35 percent of deaths due to enemy action (or accidental minestrikes from legacy mines). Perhaps twice as many service personnel have suffered very serious injuries, losing in total 150 or thereabouts skilled personnel. Without taking into account the huge financial costs, the Military cannot afford this unnecessary attrition.

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How the media blew it

I first heard that there had been another IED strike on a Viking early Wednesday evening, long before there was any media coverage. This was from Thomas Harding of <em>The Daily Telegraph</em>, who told me two soldiers had been killed, and more injured.

At that time, we did not know that Lt-Col Rupert Thorneloe had been killed. Thus, to us, there was only one story – another example of men being killed in the perilously inadequate Viking, so lightly armoured that it is incapable of resisting even a minor IED hit under the belly or tracks.

Welsh Guards CO killed

Lieutenant Colonel Rupert Thornloe (pictured on patrol), CO of the 1st Bttn Welsh Guards, has been killed in Afghanistan by an IED. He is the first CO to be killed in action since the death of Lt-Col H Jones of the Parachute Regiment in 1982 at Goose Green in the Falklands War. Thornloe's death comes two weeks after the death of Major Sean Birchall, also of the Welsh Guards. He is the third Welsh Guards officer to be killed on the current roulement, with Lt Mark Evison killed on 12 May after sustaining injuries whilst on patrol outside Check Point Haji Alem in Helmand.

[Anonymouse]

Shame that Google has your previous page on the subject cached and shows the name, rank and position of the deceased. Especially as no names have been released yet as the next of kin haven't been informed.

[RAENORTH]

Shame that Google has your previous page on the subject cached and shows the name, rank and position of the deceased. Especially as no names have been released yet as the next of kin haven't been informed.

The next of kin have been informed and had been by the time I put up the post. There is usually a 24 hr delay on releasing names ... this is well past the period, and the media were aware of the name. The embargo does not apply to blogs ... no one contacted me personally and I got to hear of its existence second-hand, after I had learned the name from two independent sources. My post was only up a few minutes. I took it down voluntarily as soon as I heard there was an embargo, which was requested by the MoD (addressed to the media), extending the normal "period of grace". That was the best I could do.

[Anonymouse]

Thank you for the explanation. I realise these things sometimes happen.

Unfortunately you've been quoted as the source of this information on the Welsh Guard's Wikipedia page.

[RAENORTH]

Thank you for the explanation. I realise these things sometimes happen.

Unfortunately you've been quoted as the source of this information on the Welsh Guard's Wikipedia page.

I'm truly sorry about that ... and I'm quite dismayed about how quickly it was picked up ... the piece cannot have been up more than five minutes before I took it down.

[Guest]

It's now on The Sun website.

[gareth]

The Sun article names one of the men and the vehicle.

[RAENORTH]

Thank you both. The MoD has now cleared the name for publication and I have decided to publish our post.

[Peter]

Why ,exactly, are British troops fighting the Taleban? Blair has gone,Bush has gone,we owe nothing to Obama.

[RAENORTH]

Why ,exactly, are British troops fighting the Taleban? Blair has gone,Bush has gone,we owe nothing to Obama.

Almost without exception, when there is an item on Afghanistan in the MSM - and elsewhere - some clever-dick will make precisely your comment. On the Telegraph site, a reader by the name of "Lady Muck" will invariably add this tedious little comment. To turn your comment back on you, what exactly has your commnent got to do with my report of the Welsh Guards CO being killed?

[Peter]

It is a reasonable question,since being there is what is getting our troops killed.

[Peter]

"General Sir Richard Dannatt, Chief of the General Staff, said last night: “The deaths of Lieutenant-Colonel Rupert Thorneloe and Trooper Joshua Hammond during Operation Panchai Palang in Helmand province is a devastating blow to the Welsh Guards battle group and to the Army as a whole.”

Very smart,now the Talebamn know they are using the right tactics.

[Helen S]

It is a reasonable question,since being there is what is getting our troops killed.

As Richard has pointed out on numerous occasions what is getting our troops killed unnecessarily is having the wrong equipment, specifically, the wrong vehicles. This is not a difficult point to grasp. As the fact that a Viking was involved is the inconvenient truth that is being buried, comments like that help to dig the grave. Hope you are pleased to do your little bit.

[Peter]

You both keep moaning how the media and the MoD are doing it wrong. Fundamentally, there is no interest in the war in Afghanistan,there is little public support,unless there is,there will be no real pressure for the MoD to get it right. The best way to protect the troops,if the MoD cannot get it right, is to pull them out.

[RAENORTH]

You both keep moaning how the media and the MoD are doing it wrong. Fundamentally, there is no interest in the war in Afghanistan,there is little public support,unless there is,there will be no real pressure for the MoD to get it right. The best way to protect the troops,if the MoD cannot get it right, is to pull them out.

The best way to protect the troops is for the media and Parliament to do their jobs as well as they expect the troops to perform. As for your use of the word "moaning", could you be a little more pejorative? Go on, you owe it to yourself - try a little harder.